This is way off topic, but given my fellow forum members experience and often legal expertise (even if it is just good searching of the revisor's web site), I thought I'd see what you guys know and think.

Picked my son (18 mos) up from daycare today. Attached to the daily note was an additional note that some other kid bit him, there was no blood and a little TLC and some ice and he was back to normal. I asked the room's lead "teacher" (hate the word, but that's the title they use) who had bitten him, expecting it to be a little girl almost my son's age who shares an odd, reciprocal, love/hate relationship with him. I was hardly worried about the injury, since there really wasn't any.

Much to my surprise the teacher told me "We can't tell you, it's our policy." I was really surprised, and I told her that wasn't really acceptable -- if something happens to my child, I expect to be told all the facts, not an edited version of them. She said she understood, but that was the policy.

As I walked out, I happened to run into the Director and I asked her and she said the same thing, saying it was to protect the OTHER child's privacy! Let me get this straight -- my kid gets hurt, and we're withholding information from the injured child's parents in order to protect THEIR PRIVACY!? We had a polite conversation about it, and I told her I would like something in writing indicating what their legal authority to withhold information was. She said that even in cases of exchange of bodily fluids(!) they do not tell the parent(s) whose child was involved.

Forgive me, but I think that's positively nuts, bordering on Brave New World-like information control. I don't generally get too worked up about something like this, but I started wondering if there was an attorney I could call to (a) give me the legal lowdown on this and if I'm right, (b) write the daycare center and tell them not to do that.

My wife tells me to go find something else to worry about -- "Just wait until he's in the public school system, you'll give yourself a stroke." She's right in a sense, but I still am entirely disgusted.

Otherwise, we're real happy there (other than the law prevents me from carrying there) -- the staff are good, the facilities are nice and otherwise we have nothing to complain about.

No, that's ridiculous. I would plow that issue into the ground until I got satisfaction if it were me.

I'm trying to figure out what else to say, but the words aren't coming to me easily right now. I would just say I'm willing to bet it would hurt a child's mindset, in at least some subconscious way, to know that their parent can't be told about something adverse that happened to them (I guess this would be when they're a little older). I mean, you're the provider, you're the protector -- what's that say when someone else refuses to talk to you about what's happening with your charge? What kind of message would stuff like that send to them later on should a stranger want to hurt them? 'Oh, I can't tell dad, he either doesn't want to or can't be told about these things sometimes.'

Prolix has a valid point. It could change the child's mindset so that they feel their parents are unapproachable in certain situations. Of course, that''s what the "Nanny State" wants. The kids will speak with the teacher before they would bring a prolem to their parents.

Let's pretend that you wanted to file a suit against that daycare & the other kid's parents. I'd be willing to bet that the daycare's non-disclosure policy would rapidly change. Not only did THEY fail to provide adequate protection for your child, but are in all intents and purposes "harboring a criminal". That's how I would see it. That would be an interesting question to see a well versed lawyer answer. At a minimum, they should be able to allow you to speak directly with the offending child's parents, I would think. All in all, it has the appearances of a cover-up. But what do I know?? (NOT being a lawyer and all that)

I think I would be finding another daycare provider and ensure that when I did, there wouldn't be any problems like that.

So what would happen if you where to file some type of assault report with the local PD?

At this stage of my son's development (he's only 18 months), the kids themselves aren't really completely in control of their behavior. From what I've read, they aren't able to see the other children as fellow human beings (there's a $10 word that describes this well, but it escapes me) -- they're more like objects to them. Highly animated, but objects, in addition to their own lack of behavioral and emotional control.

So stuff like calling the police, etc, isn't really applicable. I don't think they'd accept an assault complaint from an 18 month old on an 18 month old. And I also don't think it will effect him much long-term at this stage; all he knows is that being bitten hard enough hurts.

I suspect that this is some well-meaning (the road to hell being paved with good intentions) attempt at managing parents, not kids, with the idea that should I find out that little Johnny is a biter I will act badly towards Johnny or his parents (only true if they're the me-first assholes who regularly park in the handicapped spaces..). I also think that they believe they are protecting the image/self-esteem of parents/children who may have a child with some behavior problem -- if Johnny is going through a "biting" phase and bites 4 kids in a two week span, they believe that he might be ostracized unfairly.

The problem for them, though, is I believe my right to know regarding my child's welfare is *immutable* -- it is not superceded by another child or their parents touchy-feely senstitivity or an administrator's misguided sense of "fairness", and that I do not need to justify why I need to obtain one set of facts over another or why the "relevant" facts aren't enough.

What I can do about it may be limited. I suspect that other day cares have a similar set of practices; it's probably a mindset shared by many of the people who run them. There's also a chance that this may be a "voluntary association" problem: unless they're compelled by law to share the information, they have the right to set whatever policies they want and by attending we largely agree to abide by them.

I suspect that the only real recourse we would have (barring any existing laws requiring information disclosure) would be to have a smart lawyer draft a letter to them telling them that not disclosing this information to parents is a Bad Idea, listing all the lawyerly ways it could be (greater liability, negative impression to jurors), and-oh-by-the-way I can get a court order compelling you to disclose this information faster than you can find Law and Order reruns on TV, so why not try to see this the right way..

I'm not completely there yet, but my wife reminds me we do have an acquiantaince who practices family law and I'll be calling her to bounce this off her.

As for switching daycares? Well, I have to put my "this sucks, but.." hat on. This really is a good daycare and very hard to get into. It's close. We like the staff (differences of opinion on this issue notwithstanding), they have been very responsive to other concerns we've had, and we don't get bitten all that often. And finding a GOOD daycare that isn't a jillion miles away and doesn't cost a $1500 a month is FARKING HARD, bordering on impossible.

Consider it training for when your children enter public school.
As annoying as this was for you, it gets way worse at the public school level, where political correctness is honed to a fine art.

Short story- Many years ago, my son was being harassed by a bully. We complained to the school, and instead of taking a stand against the bully, they tried to convince my son to try and behave in a way as not to provoke the bully. Sheesh.....all he was doing was minding his own business.

Good luck in your quest for the truth about what happened to your child.

LOL. I had that problem when I was younger. A couple kids decided several times it would be fun to beat me up. The school took minimal action toward the bully. My dad didn't see an improvement in the problem, so he told me that if he tries to hurt me again I should hit him as hard as I can until he backs off, and showed me a little about fighting and wrestling (dad was a wrestler in high school. Cool). He also said that it's OK if I get suspended for it, and he'll tell the school that it's OK to defend yourself.(Which he did, but he wouldn't let me hear how he told them that. It took me a while to take my dad's advise to heart, but I finally did. I got detention for defending myself, but my dad said that it's ok and I did a good job. A couple of small scuffle's in which I didn't back down and a large one that left me with a relatively long term fear of people touching my neck(but I left physically unharmed) and I never seemed to have a problem again. Imagine that.

Ain't it funny though that when one stands up to a bully, they tend to leave you alone?? I had several encounters due to my size and introvertedness. They all escalated to a point where I finally said enough is enough and fought back. Funny thing, a number of "people" left me alone after that.

Call the PD or a lawyer. I would want to know if this kid was carrying any disease. That was one nice thing about the DOD run daycares all kids had to be signed off by the docs and there were some medically denied. TB or any of the hepatitis are quit common in the US.

During the conversation I had with the director, I was told that even in cases of bodily fluids exchange, they do "anonymous" testing -- you get the results, but not the identity.

There wasn't in our case, but if there was the FIRST place I would call would be an attorney (after a doctor to insure there was nothing wrong). We'd sue the daycare for the information.

18 months huh... Lots of learning to do... and too young to show how to make a fist.

Biters are tough, the action provoking the bite is nearly always stopped by the bite (reward for bite), then in a PC environment, they have a VERY hard time curing the problem (Show the biter what a bite feels like). Many daycares will turn away a biter so they don't have to fix the problem. I suspect that if you stearnly inform the provider that there is an expectation, most likely a contractual obligation also, of them providing a SAFE environment for your child that they may speak to the biters parents and encourage them to cure the problem or seek daycare elsewhere.

We once had daycare with a family who had a dog (dam yippers). It was close to our work, reasonably priced, decent area and other kids (wife always had 'a feeling' though). One day when my wife was picking up the kids the dog bit a child (4 - 6yrs) in the cheek near the eye, and left dents (didn't break the skin). The wife hung around to see what was to be told to the parent... So when the parent arrived, the provider informed the parent there was an 'issue' between her dog and the child where the dog nipped at the child and left it at that. The parent tells the child "I told you to stay away from strange dogs" At which point the wife chimed in, NO - the dog bit your child on the cheek!. The kids never went back, we stopped to say they wouldn't be back and the lady says - look, it didn't leave a mark! Like that would matter - she lied or at least minimized the encounter to a parent. She sent us a note saying she was going to sue us for two weeks of daycare since we didn't give notice. She must have changed her mind when we called up the county to report the incident, and then called her to tell her to sue away, but in our contract there is an implied gaurantee of providing a safe environment for our children, and we would let all the other parents know you lied to a parent regarding her child.

As has been pointed out by others, wait till school, and it isn't only public schools with problems! They ALL have them.

Mostly-

This is in no way to pass judgement on *anyone* who disagrees with me. I realize we all have different situations....

[high horse] I trust no one to raise my kids other than my wife and myself. Not to mention the fact that one of us would be working primarily to pay for the cost of the daycare. I just don't see the benefit unless you both make bucketloads of money at your job, and are willing to let the care of your children hang in the balance. [/high horse]

I hope I've not offended too many people with my narrow minded opinion...

Not a narrow minded opinion at all, very principled in fact.

I will, however, disagree with the statement of "letting your children hang in the balance." I think that's a gross overstatement with regard to many daycare providers, ours included. Despite my disagreement with the provider's policy in regard to disclosure, our provider is quite good, both in our experience, in the experience of past users who referred us to there, and relative to the 6-12 month waiting list they have for admission.

I did speak my sister-in-law who is an attorney. She didn't believe that there's any legal basis for them to withhold the information they choose to withhold; by paritcipating in a group daycare, you don't generally have any expectation of privacy from other members for events that take place within the daycare that involve other members. She thought that barring some unusual interpretation of laws targeted at other instutitions (healthcare, public schools, etc), we could easily sue for the information and get it.

However, they are free to make any policies they like within the scope of their legal obligations and we voluntarily agree to them by sending our son there. If we disagree with their policy we are free to leave daycare and find another provider with more agreeable policies, but this has the cost and the implications of other similar major moves -- job change, etc. We may get a provider with better reporting, but more bighting, worse staff, as well as the disruption in continuity of care.

She said we probably could pursue legal recourse, but she said that we could also expect to be given 30 days notice to find another daycare center -- it's a mutually voluntary association, and they may just decide that we're too high maintenance. I also don't want my son to be treated in an uncommon manner because they believe I am confrontational.

Over this particular incident, I'm not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater (to abuse a cliche). Good daycare is hard to find, especially good daycare as convenient as this is to us. The director knows I do not agree with the policy and I suspect that she realizes that a real incident will have substantive consequences.

I guess it's like CCW in some regards -- it's better to just walk away than engage in a confrontation, most of the time.

You could always ask the state. I believe daycares are 'mandated reporters'. If they haven't reported it....oops! (cue sinister music as State Inspectors descend upon them!)

LOL