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 Time to start paying taxes on health insurance premiums? 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:34 pm 
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White Horseradish wrote:
Carbide Insert wrote:
I'd love to know what that has to do with the 1970's $300 baby birth, versus the bill I received for my son's birth in 2007.

:?
First of all,"$1601.51 in the year 2007 has the same "purchase power" as $300 in the year 1970."

Inflation adjusted, there is still at least a 500% difference in price.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:38 pm 
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princewally wrote:
Inflation adjusted, there is still at least a 500% difference in price.

It's for bloodsucking lawyer's insurance.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:46 pm 
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All medicine tody is much more sophisticated. The average experienced "doctor" in 1970 could not even get into medical school today. Hospitals have all kinds of equipment available and they really cannot offer a stripped down service with lower coswt and a higher death rate than other hospitals.

Medicine today does not even resemble medicine of 1970, just as 1970 did not resemble the 30's (before penecillin). Fifty years before THAT doctors did not know about germs. Six months school and a bag of tools and one was state of the art before 1900.

Medicine is basically a "new" thing and we can't pretend it's just private business like a barbershop or a T Shirt store or a tattoo parlor. The world is what it is. America is the only modern country in the world with a medical industry based on an old fashioned economic model.

Government does do some kinds of things better than "private" industry. Health insurance is one of them because it has to include everybody.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
America is the only modern country in the world with a medical industry based on an old fashioned economic model.


And the others are either trying to get away from it, or letting people die due to rationed care.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:09 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
All medicine tody is much more sophisticated. The average experienced "doctor" in 1970 could not even get into medical school today. Hospitals have all kinds of equipment available and they really cannot offer a stripped down service with lower coswt and a higher death rate than other hospitals.

Medicine today does not even resemble medicine of 1970, just as 1970 did not resemble the 30's (before penecillin). Fifty years before THAT doctors did not know about germs. Six months school and a bag of tools and one was state of the art before 1900.

Medicine is basically a "new" thing and we can't pretend it's just private business like a barbershop or a T Shirt store or a tattoo parlor. The world is what it is. America is the only modern country in the world with a medical industry based on an old fashioned economic model.

Government does do some kinds of things better than "private" industry. Health insurance is one of them because it has to include everybody.


Not everything "Old Fashioned" is bad, especially if it works better than the new version.
:wink: :wink: :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:36 pm 
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But everybody else is doing it...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:11 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
But everybody else is doing it...

Yep. In England, it's $45,000 per person per year. If it costs more than that, a treatment won't be approved.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:24 pm 
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jdege wrote:
DeanC wrote:
But everybody else is doing it...

Yep. In England, it's $45,000 per person per year. If it costs more than that, a treatment won't be approved.


But, but, but, that eliminates anything major! That would never happen. </sarcasm>
It's the big stuff that makes people need health insurance, since the little stuff can be afforded or avoided.

Gee, all the reasons for communized healthcare get thrown out whenever it's implemented in the real world.

Who'da thought, idealogical, feel-good rubbish can't stand up to the real world. If you want to see how well that works in the U.S., look at the failure that is VA and Medicare.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:16 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
Government does do some kinds of things better than "private" industry. Health insurance is one of them because it has to include everybody.

Why dose it have to include everyone? When did full health care coverage become something we are entitled to? I currently don't have any insurance since I'm unemployed. It's just a bad investment at this point since I don't know when I will find a job I can either pay for insurance that I have not used since 2003 or keep up with my other bills. If I have a major health issue it could trash my credit or when I quit paying my other bills it will trash my credit. Either way the results would be the same except If the past is any indication the odds of needing insurance sure do not justify the payments.

Another way you can play the odds to keep your cash, is run your cars under a personal loan you then can raise your deductibles to 2k or more, I've saved enough to make up the gap in 3 years. Same reason the insurance companies "wave" the deductibles if you are accident-free for X years.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Interestingly, Japan has the longest life span of any nation on earth, yet has fewer doctors per capita than any other First-World nation.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Mattxd wrote:
Dick Unger wrote:
Government does do some kinds of things better than "private" industry. Health insurance is one of them because it has to include everybody.

Why dose it have to include everyone? When did full health care coverage become something we are entitled to? I currently don't have any insurance since I'm unemployed. It's just a bad investment at this point since I don't know when I will find a job I can either pay for insurance that I have not used since 2003 or keep up with my other bills. If I have a major health issue it could trash my credit or when I quit paying my other bills it will trash my credit. Either way the results would be the same except If the past is any indication the odds of needing insurance sure do not justify the payments.

Another way you can play the odds to keep your cash, is run your cars under a personal loan you then can raise your deductibles to 2k or more, I've saved enough to make up the gap in 3 years. Same reason the insurance companies "wave" the deductibles if you are accident-free for X years.


It needs to include everybody because everyone has to be covered. Simple. You yourself still plan to get health care even if you cannot afford to pay. You'll just "trash your credit". So, the rest of the world will "pay", just like universal coverage would do.

Or you could have the courage of youyr convictions, you are NOT entitled, just sit at home and die without bothering anyone.

Everyone is entitled to "life". That's just basic. And your post is consistant with an assumption that you are "entitled" to "life".

Health coverage IS universal, we might as well admit it and set up a logical plan of coverage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:15 pm 
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Dick Unger wrote:
Mattxd wrote:
Dick Unger wrote:
Government does do some kinds of things better than "private" industry. Health insurance is one of them because it has to include everybody.

Why dose it have to include everyone? When did full health care coverage become something we are entitled to? I currently don't have any insurance since I'm unemployed. It's just a bad investment at this point since I don't know when I will find a job I can either pay for insurance that I have not used since 2003 or keep up with my other bills. If I have a major health issue it could trash my credit or when I quit paying my other bills it will trash my credit. Either way the results would be the same except If the past is any indication the odds of needing insurance sure do not justify the payments.

Another way you can play the odds to keep your cash, is run your cars under a personal loan you then can raise your deductibles to 2k or more, I've saved enough to make up the gap in 3 years. Same reason the insurance companies "wave" the deductibles if you are accident-free for X years.


It needs to include everybody because everyone has to be covered. Simple. You yourself still plan to get health care even if you cannot afford to pay. You'll just "trash your credit". So, the rest of the world will "pay", just like universal coverage would do.

Or you could have the courage of youyr convictions, you are NOT entitled, just sit at home and die without bothering anyone.

Everyone is entitled to "life". That's just basic. And your post is consistant with an assumption that you are "entitled" to "life".

Health coverage IS universal, we might as well admit it and set up a logical plan of coverage.


Sure if i had to I'd go in to get treatment and I'd be stuck with the bills until I could pay them off. I'd be a drain on the economy until then and feel like s**t about it, but i would not just walk away from it.

Anyway if everybody truly means everybody dose that mean we should pay to build and run an American quality healthcare system in Guatemala.
Now I could agree within our borders true emergency care yes, anything beyond that no and street them once it is determined that they are not at risk of death or disfigurement before they could get to a regular doctor.

My take on the problem with heathcare is we have demonetized the system with no incentive to take care of our self or demand good value. Because of this there is no incentive to develop lower cost treatments for the things insurance covers, but miraculously they are able to do this all the time for elective procedures like Lasix.

Anyway what we call insurance has morphed into a extended warranty sure it covers the big things but at a $20 co-pay I have to pay more for a issue with my car. This is why universal coverage at the level most people would expect isn't practical. Insurance needs to be insurance, cover the big bills and evaluate the risk of a person instead of lumping us together with our co-workers. No, i wouldn't be in a preferred group.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:15 pm 
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princewally wrote:
Inflation adjusted, there is still at least a 500% difference in price.
And then there was the rest of my post...

chunkstyle wrote:
Interestingly, Japan has the longest life span of any nation on earth, yet has fewer doctors per capita than any other First-World nation.
They also have a mandatory national exercise program and a super-high suicide rate.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:40 am 
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White Horseradish wrote:
princewally wrote:
Inflation adjusted, there is still at least a 500% difference in price.
And then there was the rest of my post...


In the cases I've been involved in, there were fewer doctors, fewer nurses and MUCH less time involved recently. Also, less equipment.

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