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Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

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Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

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Selurcspi

Post subject: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:37 am

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Alcoholic Gary Reinbach dead at 22 after transplant refused

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article6721483.ece

A man has died of alcoholic liver failure at the age of just 22 despite a public appeal from his doctors for transplant rules to be waived to give him a chance at life.

Gary Reinbach and his family were told that unless he could prove that he could live alcohol-free in the community for six months he could not qualify for a donor organ - but he was too sick to leave hospital.

His doctors and his family went public at the weekend to highlight his plight, but Mr Reinbach died less than 48 hours after they issued their appeal for the rules to be waived.

Today, his mother Madeline Hanshaw, 44, expressed her bitterness that he had been denied a chance. She told the Evening Standard: “These rules are really unfair. I’m not saying you should give a transplant to someone who is in and out of hospital all the time and keeps damaging themselves, but just for people like Gary, who made a mistake and never got a second chance.”

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Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:59 am

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What does this have to do with socialized medicine? This sounds like the standard transplant rules everywhere.

Greg

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:33 am

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Dying of "alcoholic liver failure" is not a mistake, it's a result of long term abuse of alcohol.

Darwin in action! I'd rather see the limited (and not by "socialized medicine") number of organs go to people that are not very likely to go out and ruin the new one.

This sounds like the usual "he was just turning his life around" every time some scumbag gets killed.

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White Horseradish

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:05 pm

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Alcoholic liver failure at 22? That takes some serious work.

I am not going to be all gleeful about the man being dead, but he personally had a much larger hand in his fate than the medical establishment.

Dick Unger

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:31 pm

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Location: West Central MN

He was too far gone before he was diagnosed. But, at least his condition was automatically covered by the government health plan. Most of us would have to first get special approval from our medical insurance company for anthing like this. I'm betting he was better off in the UK than I would be with Blue Cross if i needed a transplant.

The American medical establishmnet is sponsering all kinds of garbage to avoid government supervision that might kill their golden goose. They've got every right wing kook screaming "socialism" and "rationing" and "higher cost" and complainging about the incompetance of our government. Yet we face an impending national crisis, and they propose no solutions of their own. It's a mistake to believe this garbage. Unofrtunately, some of the leaders of the Republican party are supporting this stuff. :evil:

DeanC

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:41 pm

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Quote:

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2009/07/whats-in-healthacre-bill.html

Following the mad recommendations of Peter Singer made in NYT's Sunday magazine, it pays to take a look at what is actually in the healthcare bill.

It's worse than you can possibly imagine.

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will b issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 ur banks accts 4 elect. funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan 4 retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring priv HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs 4 priv. HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration ur Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation 4 illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps 2 sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will b automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monop

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng 2 Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access 2 ALL Americans finan/pers recs

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs 4 Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty u have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals 4 what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize u.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority 2 disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in2 Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs ppl! WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can u say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding u in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program 4 orders 4 end of life. The Govt has a say in how ur life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER 4 end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in2 ur marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs

Here's the full Health Care bill that sits in the House: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... 3200ih.pdf

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Dick Unger

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:55 pm

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That's just a first draft. They'll cut out the worst stuff from any bill that passes so the Republicans and Blue Dogs can say they helped.

It'll probably look like Medicare, except for how they'll collect the money from us. I think how we pay is independent of whether we implement the care. They'll fight over payment for a long time.

Greg

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:10 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:13 pm
Posts: 874
Location: Minneapolis

DeanC wrote:

Quote:

I have no doubt that the present bill sucks and we don't want it, but this "analysis" is contradictory at best and highly partisan!

It's not like the current system is anything like perfect. It rations health care by price too and it's not the govt telling doctors what to do, it's the insurance companies.

It simultaneously claims that the public plan is mandatory and then, in other lines, goes on to complain about the taxes on employers that don't offer the public option.

Covering marriage counseling isn't the govt. inserting itself into your marriage!

Too many more to spend time listing them.

I've been voting GOP for years but I'm nearly as tired of them as I am of the DFL. Screw their culture war! Hypocrites!

If this is what passes for "analysis" with this guy it doesn't speak well for his credibility!

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tman065

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:13 pm

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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am
Posts: 810
Location: Northern MN

Greg wrote:

I have no doubt that the present bill sucks and we don't want it, but this "analysis" is contradictory at best and highly partisan!

It simultaneously claims that the public plan is mandatory and then, in other lines, goes on to complain about the taxes on employers that don't offer the public option.

I believe the intent of the tax is to force employers to buy into the program, since they will be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

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Lenny7

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:16 pm

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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Savage, MN

Greg wrote:

It's not like the current system is anything like perfect. It rations health care by price too and it's not the govt telling doctors what to do, it's the insurance companies.

Are the insurance companies telling doctors what to do, or are they telling them what they will cover?

I believe you still have the option of paying out of pocket for services or treatment that insurance won't cover. A couple of years ago when my front tooth was broken off, I found out insurance would not cover an implant, but they would cover a bridge. I decided I'd rather have an implant and I so I paid $5000 for it out of pocket. I couldn't complain about insurance not covering it because it was spelled out in their policy.

princewally

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:27 pm

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Dick Unger wrote:

That's just a first draft. They'll cut out the worst stuff from any bill that passes so the Republicans and Blue Dogs can say they helped.

When has that happened? Ever?

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Greg

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:24 pm

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Lenny7 wrote:

Greg wrote:

It's not like the current system is anything like perfect. It rations health care by price too and it's not the govt telling doctors what to do, it's the insurance companies.

Again, I'm not in favor of Obama-care!

However, even under what they want, you'd still have the option to pay out of pocket. I still end up paying quite a bit out of pocket with my Blue Cross/Blue Shield (of Missouri). If I want to be covered I have to use the company approved providers unless I want to eat more of it myself.

Our current system sucks and it's killing us, I just think Obama-care would be worse.

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Moby Clarke

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:48 pm

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I hear this all the time, yet don't see it in action. Please explain how our current system is broken. Anyone, in detail, please.

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Dick Unger

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:12 pm

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princewally wrote:

Dick Unger wrote:

That's just a first draft. They'll cut out the worst stuff from any bill that passes so the Republicans and Blue Dogs can say they helped.

When has that happened? Ever?

What I mean is that they come with the stongest bill possible, and then it gets watered down with compromises. That happens wih most contested laws.

jdege

Post subject: Re: Here's the kind of results you get from Socialized Medicine

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:27 am

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Dick Unger wrote:

princewally wrote:

Dick Unger wrote:

That's just a first draft. They'll cut out the worst stuff from any bill that passes so the Republicans and Blue Dogs can say they helped.

When has that happened? Ever?

What I mean is that they come with the stongest bill possible, and then it gets watered down with compromises. That happens wih most contested laws.

Actually, I'd say the usual process is more that they start with an evil bill, then tack on enough stupid stuff to get it passed, or they start with a stupid bill and then tack on enough evil stuff to get it past. I can think of few instances where the negotiating process removed the most objectionable parts of the bill, usually it's just padding it with pork until they can buy enough votes.

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