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 I fail to see a problem here... 
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 Post subject: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Why cancel this? Shit, we should arm and let everybody in the damn country go hunting for these bastards, if you ask me!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/20/cia.blackwater/index.html

Quote:
Source: CIA hired Blackwater to help hunt al Qaeda leaders

From Barbara Starr and Pam Benson
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Central Intelligence Agency hired the private security firm Blackwater USA in 2004 to work on a covert program aimed at targeting and potentially killing top al Qaeda leaders, according to a source familiar with the program.

The existence of the program, which began in 2001, came to light earlier this year when CIA Director Leon Panetta canceled the effort, but it is only now that Blackwater's involvement has become known.

That development was first reported Thursday in The New York Times.

The program was part of a broader effort inside the CIA to develop the capacity to conduct training, surveillance and possible covert operations overseas, according to the source. The program was outsourced to contractors to "put some distance" between the effort and the U.S. government.

By mid-2006, Blackwater's involvement in the program had ended, according to a U.S. official. Other contractors were brought in for other parts of the program, another source said.

The total program cost "millions," a U.S. official said. It is not known how much Blackwater was paid. The company -- now known as Xe -- did not return CNN's calls seeking comment.

"The program ebbed and flowed. There were different phases to it. There may have been different folks involved," the source said.

U.S. officials have previously acknowledged that Panetta canceled the entire program this year when he learned of its full scope. At the time of the cancellation, officials said, renewal of the program was being considered. At that point, it had been brought to the new CIA director's attention.

Panetta canceled the effort in part because Congress had not been notified about it, officials said. Also, some in the intelligence community were worried there could be a diplomatic disaster if contractors were caught performing such work in foreign countries.

Former CIA Director Michael Hayden, who ran the agency from 2006 to 2009, downplayed the program during a speaking engagement in Washington.

"This was not a very prominent thing during my time as director," Hayden said. "What you had were three separate efforts under three different directors to deal with an issue that everyone understood was a problem in a capacity that everyone agreed we should have."

A spokesman for the CIA would not comment on the details of the still-classified program.

"Director Panetta thought this effort should be briefed to Congress, and he did so," spokesman George Little said. "He also knew it hadn't been successful, so he ended it. Neither decision was difficult. This was clear and straightforward.

"Director Panetta did not tell the committees that the agency had misled the Congress or had broken the law. He decided that the time had come to brief Congress on a counterterrorism effort."

Blackwater's extensive involvement in U.S. operations overseas, particularly in Iraq, has been controversial. The Iraqi government says that in a shooting in September 2007, Blackwater security guards killed 17 Iraqi civilians. Blackwater says its employees were returning fire after they were attacked by armed insurgents, but an Iraqi investigation concluded that the guards randomly fired at civilians without provocation.

The incident led to the Iraqi government's refusal to renew the firm's operating license in the country when it expired in May.

Although it lost the Iraq contract, the company, which changed its name to Xe earlier this year, continued to get multimillion-dollar contracts from the U.S. government for work in Afghanistan.


Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here and take what may be a controversial stance, but we need people who are willing to hunt down and covertly kill pieces of shit like bin Laden. It may entirely shock the granola types, but you aren't going to defend this country by having intellectual discussions over mocha-frappa-latte-fucking-chinos.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Agreed. In 1999 we had people within two hundred yards of him armed and capable but the Clinton administation was worried about the political repercussions in some third world dustbowl might be. We need to try that again


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Find the cave one of them is hiding in? Put a missile in it.

Find a training camp? Blow it off the face of the Earth.

Find someone financing these assholes? Put a bullet in their head or C4 under their driver's seat.

Are our HUMINT capabilities really that far gone, that we can't find a terrorist leader running around with a bunch of goats, a dialysis machine, and a big bankroll, yet they can get videos to media groups and have internet access? :evil:

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Put a price on his head, and sign up any who will go get him.

The legal term for this is "letter of Marque and Reprisal", and is specifically allowed in the Constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:07 pm 
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chunkstyle wrote:
Put a price on his head, and sign up any who will go get him.

The legal term for this is "letter of Marque and Reprisal", and is specifically allowed in the Constitution.


Ron Paul tried...

Too bad we've got a bunch of cowards for politicians.


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:51 pm 
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mrokern wrote:

Are our HUMINT capabilities really that far gone, that we can't find a terrorist leader running around with a bunch of goats, a dialysis machine, and a big bankroll, yet they can get videos to media groups and have internet access? :evil:

-Mark


From what I have read, the CIA claims that the US has no HUMINT in many of the countries now hostile to the US. One thing I never understood is why they didn't try and track him through his need for a dialysis machine. If he is on hemodialysis, there are not that many manufacturers that make the machines. Furthermore, a filter from one machine will generally not fit another machine. If you find out the brand of machine that he is using, it shouldn't be that hard to track the shipments of filters. For one thing, in a place like Pakistan, the number of machines available would be substantially less than the number of machines in, say the US. The machines are generally not portable and require a supply of electricity and a reasonably clean environment. Still, the filter manufacturing process is a very precise one and filter shipments could be tracked as there won't be many places with the capability to make the proper filters.
If he is on peritoneal dialysis, there are portable machines but the logistics as far as the quantities of fluid required are huge. Even if the fluid is manufactured locally, it could be tracked.
My wife was on both types of dialysis for years and dealing with the schedules for hemodialysis and the large quantities of fluid required for peritoneal dialysis was always a pain. Maybe someone in the medical field here can shed some more light on the subject.


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:45 am 
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It may entirely shock the granola types, but you aren't going to defend this country by having intellectual discussions over mocha-frappa-latte-fucking-chinos.

Our current administration thinks it can be done. :bang:

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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:34 am 
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Hiring a contractor "by the hour" to hunt him down is a dumb idea, just like paying a consultant to fix a problem. They'll work on it for years, milking you dry.

Put a fixed price on OBL; when they bring in his body, they collect a huge bounty. 'Til it comes in, they get nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:21 pm 
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I could agree with canceling the program - IF it meant they would let our military do it's job.

There are plenty of current military men capable and <more than> willing to take care of this themselves for their base pay (no bonus needed) - if only they were allowed to... we don't need the contractors...


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 Post subject: And the next round of stupidity...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:32 am 
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Once again...where's the problem here? This doesn't even ALLEGE that actual abuse occurred, just the threat of violence.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/23/cia.prisoner.report/index.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- CIA interrogators threatened an al Qaeda prisoner with a gun and an electric drill to try to scare him into giving up information, according to a long-concealed inspector-general's report due to be made public on Monday, sources familiar with the report confirmed to CNN.

The gun and drill were used in two separate interrogation sessions against Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, one of the sources said. Al-Nashiri is accused of plotting the 2000 attack on the USS Cole, which left 17 U.S. sailors dead.

The sources did not want to be identified because the report, completed by the CIA's inspector general in 2004, has not yet been made public. A federal judge in New York has ordered a redacted version of the report released Monday as part of a lawsuit filed by the ACLU.

The interrogations took place in the CIA's secret prisons before 2006, when then-President George W. Bush moved all detainees from such facilities to the federal prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, both sources said.

Details of the report were first published by Newsweek magazine late Friday.

Newsweek also said that, according to its sources citing the inspector-general's report, interrogators staged mock executions to try to frighten detainees into talking. In one instance, Newsweek reported, a gun was fired in a room next to one terrorism suspect so he would think another prisoner was being killed.

A CIA spokesman would not talk about specifics of the inspector-general's report but said all the incidents described in it have been reviewed by government prosecutors.

"The CIA in no way endorsed behavior -- no matter how infrequent -- that went beyond formal guidance. This has all been looked at; professionals in the Department of Justice decided if and when to pursue prosecution. That's how the system was supposed to work, and that's how it did work," CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said.

One of the sources, a former intelligence official who is familiar with the report, said that while the report "reaffirmed" the interrogation program, it "also showed some had strayed off center."

The official said about a dozen cases of potential misconduct by interrogators were referred to the Justice Department. Of those, only one person was prosecuted, the official said, with the rest being referred to the CIA accountability board, an internal disciplinary board. Two people resigned rather than face the CIA board, the official said.

This official said that when CIA leadership found out about the drill incident, they were "angry as hell." The official called it "nickel-and-dime foolishness" that was not tolerated. The individual who used the drill was pulled from the program and "sharply reprimanded," the official said.

Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the ACLU, released a statement Sunday saying, "Leaked portions of the CIA Inspector General's report offer more proof that government officials committed serious crimes while interrogating prisoners. So-called 'enhanced interrogation techniques' like mock executions and threatening prisoners with guns and power drills are not only reprehensible but illegal."

In anticipation of the release of the report Monday, Romero added, "Releasing the report with minimal redactions is essential to knowing what crimes were committed and who was involved."

The release of the inspector-general's report comes as Attorney General Eric Holder is considering whether to appoint a prosecutor to investigate the CIA interrogation program, begun by the Bush administration after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.


This asshole is responsible for the death of 17 of our servicemen. USE the damn drill next time, do the world a favor.

Are we really that pussified that we won't even THREATEN those who kill our soldiers?

I'm starting the week thoroughly disgusted.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:33 pm 
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Really the only problem is that the US didn't pay for results.


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 Post subject: Re: I fail to see a problem here...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:34 am 
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Terrorists are murderous cowards who aren’t encumbered by the rules of civilized society. When it comes to this ilk I have no issue with hiring and paying contractors to do the dirty work.
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