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 Education Debate : [Split from APX alarm salespeople/scammers] 
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 Post subject: Education Debate : [Split from APX alarm salespeople/scammers]
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:44 am 
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We must not live in a wealthy enough neighborhood to be targets of door to door. We do get every kid in the city showing up with BLEEPING fund raising selling junk no body wants like gourmet jams to Christmas wrap. I find it monsterously offensive that Mrs. Smiths third grade science class is required to fund raise on the street. I firmly believe this is an action by EdMn to raise pity for schools. I know those classes are flush with cash and supplies.


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:58 am 
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Blued Steel wrote:
We must not live in a wealthy enough neighborhood to be targets of door to door. We do get every kid in the city showing up with BLEEPING fund raising selling junk no body wants like gourmet jams to Christmas wrap. I find it monsterously offensive that Mrs. Smiths third grade science class is required to fund raise on the street. I firmly believe this is an action by EdMn to raise pity for schools. I know those classes are flush with cash and supplies.


I doubt very much that you "know" that. Have you read the school's budget?

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:22 pm 
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As a matter of fact I do "know" that. While I was a parent of public school children I always asked the kids teachers if we they needed anything. Not once we were asked to provide school supplies. I also taught for a couple of years before I was married. We had everything we needed and most everything we wanted.

If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Blued Steel wrote:
As a matter of fact I do "know" that. While I was a parent of public school children I always asked the kids teachers if we they needed anything. Not once we were asked to provide school supplies. I also taught for a couple of years before I was married. We had everything we needed and most everything we wanted.

If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?


THAT'S easy. The parochial schools aren't burning their budgets on useless administrative bureaucrat salaries.


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:25 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
Blued Steel wrote:
As a matter of fact I do "know" that. While I was a parent of public school children I always asked the kids teachers if we they needed anything. Not once we were asked to provide school supplies. I also taught for a couple of years before I was married. We had everything we needed and most everything we wanted.

If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?


THAT'S easy. The parochial schools aren't burning their budgets on useless administrative bureaucrat salaries.


our old school district is 56 miles by 25 miles with a total k-12 enrollment of approx. 400 students. think of how many school districts that would encompass in the metro. we don't have the big administrative salaries up here, in fact to save money our school principal is also the district superintendent. There is enough to educate and the basic supplies are there. Nothing special or tech related can be afforded unless a grant is successful or the community or an individual donates funds.

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Saunassa wrote:
mrokern wrote:
Blued Steel wrote:
As a matter of fact I do "know" that. While I was a parent of public school children I always asked the kids teachers if we they needed anything. Not once we were asked to provide school supplies. I also taught for a couple of years before I was married. We had everything we needed and most everything we wanted.

If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?


THAT'S easy. The parochial schools aren't burning their budgets on useless administrative bureaucrat salaries.


our old school district is 56 miles by 25 miles with a total k-12 enrollment of approx. 400 students. think of how many school districts that would encompass in the metro. we don't have the big administrative salaries up here, in fact to save money our school principal is also the district superintendent. There is enough to educate and the basic supplies are there. Nothing special or tech related can be afforded unless a grant is successful or the community or an individual donates funds.


The rural schools are always going to get screwed in relation to the metro...not enough politicians with heavy clout. :evil:

The more time I spend at the capitol, the more I realize that there are those in the legislature who seem to truly believe that there are TWO classes of Minnesotans.

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Blued Steel wrote:
If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?

I didn't say they were hurting; I was contesting your assertion that they were "flush."

But to answer your question:
  • The parents all have a commitment to their kids' success
  • They don't have unfunded mandates
  • They can expel troublemakers
  • The public schools pick up the tab for busing and special ed
  • Their teachers are non-union.

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:29 pm 
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mrokern wrote:
Blued Steel wrote:
As a matter of fact I do "know" that. While I was a parent of public school children I always asked the kids teachers if we they needed anything. Not once we were asked to provide school supplies. I also taught for a couple of years before I was married. We had everything we needed and most everything we wanted.

If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?


THAT'S easy. The parochial schools aren't burning their budgets on useless administrative bureaucrat salaries.


Fewer lawsuits, too.

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Blued Steel wrote:
If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?

I didn't say they were hurting; I was contesting your assertion that they were "flush."

But to answer your question:
  • The parents all have a commitment to their kids' success
  • They don't have unfunded mandates
  • They can expel troublemakers
  • The public schools pick up the tab for busing and special ed
  • Their teachers are non-union.



Somewhat accurate but still not definitive. A college roommate is a St Paul middle school teacher. Every year he gets his choice of a new laptop and desktop in either PC or Mac. When he once said my old one still plenty good he was told they have a technology budget which had to be spent every year or they would lose it. He would rather spend the money on books but tech is cool and he has the budget for technology.

Another former student of mine is a Edina teacher. She gets money every year offered to her for funding for out of district students. If she recruits a kid from another district to transfer to Edina she eligible for a five grand finders fee from the district. This is both federal and state "equality" money. Edina has offered to take 100 needy students from Minneapolis every year yet has never filled that list yet. Despite promising no added costs to the students parents.

Mound view schools spent a fortune going all MAC a few years ago but went back to PCs at great cost because they hired a technology director who was only familiar with PCs and so when the macs had a problem his solution was say "we need a PC ". Those macs were never resold or used because no one could figure how to say we messed up. Instead a whole rec gym was converted to storage. Where they sit today depreciating away.


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:18 pm 
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from someone who should know:
"lol, not exactly true. Hundreds were sold for about $10/emac a few summers ago... Many of us high paid techs spent HOURS wiping hard drives and moving them from place to place... "

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 Post subject: Re: Education Debate : [Split from APX alarm salespeople/scammer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Split this discussion out of the APX alarm door-to-door sales discussion....

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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:21 am 
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plblark wrote:
from someone who should know:
"lol, not exactly true. Hundreds were sold for about $10/emac a few summers ago... Many of us high paid techs spent HOURS wiping hard drives and moving them from place to place... "



Is so, the former "cheerleading" practice gym is still full or mostly so, as of about Aug 25


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 Post subject: Re: Education Debate : [Split from APX alarm salespeople/scammer
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:23 am 
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Not to high jack this thread but government spending, education to LE is all spend it or loose it. I know for a fact that the county LE goes on a spending spree at the end of the budget cycel with everything left so they can use it as a base for next year.

The problem is that government budgets are not zero based, they start where they ended last year. So instead of questioning every dime they one look at what they are attempting to add.

I've been to more budget metings than I care to recall, but when schools talk of cutting teachers in many cases they are refering to cutting positions they want to add, not existing teachers.

I continue to say I'm supportive of giving givernment a reasonable amount of funding to do a specific job, and I'll pitch in more when need arises, with one condition. They can show they have spent what they already have been given with the same care I spend my money. Unfortantely I've not seen many cases where they give a crap about the money they have spent and then have the nerve to threaten our kids in order to get more money.


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:32 am 
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Blued Steel wrote:
If these schools are hurting so badly, how can parochial schools of all denominations do a better job with far less cash per student?

It isn't all that much less per typical student, once you remove the special students and their costs from the calculations.

It's still less, of course; they pay teachers less, and tend to have less administrative overhead (or at least charge it to something else).

(I remember when it was revealed that the NYC Board of Education employees had under 50% teachers. The BoE decided that this was a very bad thing, so they made some people contractors instead.)


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 Post subject: Re: APX alarm salespeople/scammers
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:39 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
The public schools pick up the tab for busing and special ed


Actually the taxpayer does. It's channeled through the public schools, but the taxpayer ultimately pay for it.

For every kid that goes to private schools, that's one less kid for the for the school district/taxpayer to pay to educate. There is some taxpayer money spent for private school kids, like busing, but they certainly don't have to pay for the entire education amount.

Does anyone know what's the marginal cost for educating one student is?


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