ohhhh pleeeeeze! You can be sure the anti-smoking-nazis are busy on that topic in WI already, since they've already managed to destroy many bars and restaurants here in MN, and cost many jobs.

You know... come to think of it, I think we should ban sun tanning of all types everywhere, and save everyone from the chance of getting skin cancer! Think of the public health savings! Then... we could ban the eating of meat! All that terrible coronary disease! And then...


ARRRGHH!

ps: Brewman, if you were j/k, sorry... pushed my button, you know?

Well, the fact is, there isn't a lot of secondhand melonoma, nor secondhand coronary disease. When you smoke with a fishbowl over your head, you can make those comparisons.

(Oh, and if this turns into a smoking discussion, it'll get split off to the Freefire Zone, okay?)

[/quote]


ps: Brewman, if you were j/k, sorry... pushed my button, you know?[/quote]

No problemo. I don't take offense very easily. It was just an attempt at some sarcasm to compliment the comments about cars and guns killing people. And I am also a tobacco user- more cigars than cigs, though.

Drawn to it's extreme, life causes death. Therefore we should all need licenses and permits to be born.

I'll run off now and smoke the Fuentes Opus X I've got stashed in my humidor. It's going to be a nice sunny day today, so I'll smoke it out in the sun.

(insert "you're the man" emoticon here) - AGoodDay

Name 3.

The last time I went into one of those "destroyed" bar and restaurants, they told me there was a 1 1/2 to 2 hour wait for a table.

(Is there a way to get the amounts of food & beverage tax collected each month? Year-over-year will show the actual effect of the smoking ban.)

(Feel free to move this to the Freefire Zone.)

Only because you asked:

Updated Hennepin / Ramsey Hospitality closings since smoking ban implementation

Hennepin & Ramsey County of MN. establishments out of business since the smoking ban......
Updated list (updates from MN Monthly)

More local commentary here:".....50+ bars and several (don't have the exact number) restaurants in Minneapolis have closed.....Now that winter is upon us, we are likely to see another surge ofclosings. 1400 jobs have already been lost in the hospitality industry....."

1) Hop's Maple Grove, MN.
2) Denny's Restaurant Plymouth, MN.
3) Copelands Minneapolis
4) TGIF 2 locations
5) TGIF Minneapolis
6) Nick & Tony's Minneapolis
7) America's Original Sportsbar Mall of America Bloomington, MN.
8) Jillian's Mall of America Bloomington, MN.
9) Park Tavern Bloomington, MN.
10) Larry's Lounge in Long Lake
11) Goodfellow's Minneapolis
12) Chang O'Hara's (bankruptcy protection) St. Paul
13) Mainstreet Bar & Cafe Maple Grove, MN.
14) Bilimbi Bay Minneapolis
15) Bilimbi Bay Apple Valley, MN.
16) Bilimbi Bay Eden Prairie, MN.
17) MN Sports Cafe
18) Jacobs 101 Minneapolis
19) Café Di Napoli Minneapolis
20) Majors
21) Southtown Bingo Bloomington, MN.
22) Italiani's Plymouth, MN.
23) 3 Muses
24) 13 Moons
25) 510 Restaurant Minneapolis
26) Amie
27) Chez Foley Wayzata, MN
28) Chives
29) El Rey de Oro
30) Mpls. Café Minneapolis
31) Soul City Supper Club
32) Tonic of Uptown Minneapolis
33) Porter's Minneapolis
34) Molly Quinn's Minneapolis, MN.
Breakaway Bar -(Luke is still hanging on as best he can, stop by and say hello)
35) Minnehaha Grill
36) Margarita Bella Minneapolis
37) Olive Garden
38) Knuckleheads Comedy Club Mall of America Bloomington, MN.
39) Asian Infusion, St. Paul
40) Big E.’s Soul Food, Minneapolis
41) Chet’s Taverna, St. Paul
42) Ciatti’s, Maplewood, MN.
43) Jazzmine’s, Minneapolis
44) Katsu Sushi, St. Paul
45) Le Bambou, Minneapolis
46) Mangia, Minneapolis
47) Margaux Limitée, St. Paul
48) Marketplace Café, Minneapolis
49) Red, Minneapolis
50) Rockin’ Lobster, St. Paul
51) Bobino's Starlight Lounge, Mpls, MN.
52) Wazobia Nigerian Cafe, Minneapolis
53) Waldo's
54) Player's Mall of America Bloomington, MN
55) Shamrock's W. 7th St. Paul (rumor is this one is a personal vendetta by some pro-smoking ban city council members in St. Paul against an owner who testified against the ban. In other words the city refused to extend a license on a technicality, but that's just the rumor from some St. Paul hospitality business owners, feel free to correct me on this one Mr. Thune)
56) Mojito's St. Louis Park, MN.
57) Stasius Bar Minneapolis, MN Bob Moffitt Communications Dir. for American Lung MN once referred to Stasiu's as his "old stomping grounds". I doubt he shed a tear though in realizing his role in contributing to their demise, because as the Lunger tells us no bars or restaurants have gone out of business due to the smoking bans. In fact, to hear the media & Bob tell it, none of these 58 establishments went out of business at all, they've simply closed their doors for an extended period of time to count all the profits that the smoking bans have bestowed upon them.
58) Little Jack's Minneapolis
59) The Buttery St. Paul

(edited to fix a smiley problem... Thanks Pakrat)

check the Disable Smilies box in the options section (below message body). The 8) gets converted to a smiley.

Incredible list. I'll have to ask my former boss, he had one in Minneapolis. I don't know if it's on the list.

I see why Minneapolis showed profits during the ban... They got to remove the unprofitable places.

How many closed in a similar period before the ban was in effect? I know for sure that Tonic Uptown's closing had nothing to do with smoking. They lost their liquor license due to the specification that no more than 50% of their receipts could be from liquor sales.

I'm not able to say that all of these bars closed exclusively due to the smoking ban. I can say however, that I have had conversations with several bar owners, and I usually hear business is down 40-60%.

One of my favorite seedy bars, The Poodle Club on Lake Street, is down to one server from four. Whiskey Junction and The joint both claim big reductions in sales.

The media did report clearly that the MOA bars (Players, Jillians, Great Am Sports Bar) all closed due to the smoking ban reducing sales drastically. (Had a rep from the Holding Co. on tape). I wonder how many people used to work there?

My whole point on this topic is the same as Mark's gun shop being put out of business. Property rights. Here the government is dictating who the business owner can have as patrons, and what LEGAL activity they are allowed to engage in.

The free market was handling this issue just fine. Quite a few places had already gone no smoking (The Dakota, Santorinis, many more) before the ban. I had no problem with that, I could choose to go or not to go to those places. What it boils down to, IMHO, is that some non-smokers feel they have a right not to be annoyed, and that since they don't like something, nobody else should be able to do it either.

This is just like the anti's being annoyed that Mark has a gun shop in Mpls- gasp!

(How's THAT for getting this back to being gun related!)

I'm trying to connect the dots here. Wisconsin's Governor decided that he didn't want law abidding citizens to carry concealed weapons. His reasons are justified to him and many liberals, I don't have to list them because we all know what they are.

In Minnesota, A law abidding citizen, after jumping through the hoops can carry a weapon but the pressure is on him or her to not smoke anywhere. It's all about people deciding how other people should live.

I am not yet convinced of the dangers of second hand smoke. That doesn't mean however that it's not offensive to some. I understand not allowing smoking in areas where the public has to be ( planes, busses, public buildings, etc) but all of you that fought for passage of MPPA should know deep down inside that it's not right to tell someone how to run their business. It's about freedom of choice. You can choose not to go into a smoking establishment but the anti's don't want to allow the owner any choice in the matter.

What's the difference? It's like being for abortion and against the death penalty, For gay marriage and against smokers. For carrying weapons or against it. It's humane nature. Pick the lifestyles that you like and try to stop other people from doing what you don't. One of the big problems today is that people are spending why to much time and money trying to get legislation passed against lifestyles that they don't agree with.

Amen brother.

This is why I end up in the middle. It seems there is no rhyme or reason to what the extreme left and extreme right decide to fight for.

Personally, I'm all for the free market system. It's been proven to work!!

Let the clientele of the bars & restaurants decide which it should be. If they choose to continue to allow smoking, post a REALLY BIG sign saying that "So & SO allows smoking." (kind of like the legitmate "bans Guns" signage). The secondhand smoke thing may be a myth, maybe it isn't. There is much contention on either side. If a person chooses to work in a smoking place, so be it. They were warned and knowledgeable about the policy. As a smoker, non-smoker, and smoker again, I can relate to some of the non-smoker's feelings. However, they can't seem to relate to ours. Adequate ventilation would solve many of the problems of enclosed smoking. Since the first Gulf War, I now get ill when people overdo it on colognes/ perfumes, diesel fumes, and many other odors. (ill, meaning sick to stomach, headaches, and a general ill-feeling). Heck, I battle with my wife when she uses certain room deodorizers. All in all, it's the will of the few controlling the will of another few. I don't think it's quite right.

Since this is now it's own thread...

1. People who CHOOSE to work in a smoking environment CHOOSE to take the chance and have NO RIGHT to complain to anyone other then their boss.

2. Second hand smoke is not a direct health hazard. It is more of a catalyst. If you are in it 24/7, then you have a very high risk of contracting problems (not 'only' or 'definitively', lung cancer). If your immune system is weak from a cold or you just being run down, you have a higher risk of having complications.

3. A bar is what it is. It is not the same without smoking. Does someone who is allergic to the sun say "I wish we could cover the world so I could go out during the day"? They may say it, but what would make them think that it would ever happen?

4. Non-smokers don't hate themselves enough to enjoy a bar (even without smoking). They go out and have a couple of drinks and leave. Whereas the smokers would stay most of the night. (on average)

5. I M.C. a karaoke show, the first night of the smoking ban I noticed quite a lot of new faces. I was actually surprised how busy it was. But, they only stuck around for about an hour. I think bars can do without the 10% of the population that don't offer a profit.

5a. Best Buy is no longer catering to the bargin shoppers (coupon cutters, people who only look for the cheapest products). There is no profit there. This, to me, can be compared to the non-smokers and bars.

6. I fully support making most restaraunts smoke-free. But the owner should be able to make the decision. Possibly offer a license discount to smoke-free establishments.

7. I would support stiffer regulations for air exchange systems/ventalations in most places.

I have Asthma (as does my wife), cigarette smoke is one of my triggers, even the smell of cigarette smoke on a person clothes can set off an Asthma attack; which can be and nearly has been fatal.

Many times I have had to walk threw smoking sections to get to the non-smoking section of a restaurant, and a lot of the time the ventilation is really poor.

I have to walk threw door of buildings with smokers puffing away in front. I have even had to have smokers removed from non-smoking areas by the police. Some of those areas had very large bottles of oxygen.

I tend to liken it to walking about shooting off your gun in random directions; eventually someone will be hurt or killed.

Go ahead and smoke, just do not smoke around my wife or myself, and just perhaps have some understand for those of us out here for whom second hand smoke does a great deal of damage too.