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This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
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Big Island Park, "City of Orono" Lake Minnetonka
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J. R.
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Post subject: Big Island Park, "City of Orono" Lake Minnetonka Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:56 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:17 pm Posts: 351 Location: west 'burbs
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_________________ For English, press 1
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Ronin069
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:00 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:16 pm Posts: 340 Location: Brooklyn Park
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This is a joke right? Right???
I do not think I have ever seen the words :
No
Not
Prohibited
Repeated so many time before - swear its sounds like something Suchie would read as an on-air bit!
_________________ "The gun chooses you, you don't choose the gun"
- my wife
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:19 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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The only thing allowed in the park:
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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SultanOfBrunei
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:25 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm Posts: 1743 Location: Lakeville
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Check out these two threads. Ree and I were able to get the city code & park sinage issues cleaned up in Lakeville. All in all it was pretty easy to get fixed. There was some concern about blowback, getting the city upset and ahving someone get uppoty and want to change the State's carry laws.
A Signage Issue
Signage Issue - Reply From Lakeville
This thread is not Lakeville specific, but a discussion on fixing up these around MN.
Clean up the City Codes Blitz
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:50 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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I'm on it.
Quote: Mr. Wells and Mr. Mattick,<br><br>It has recently come to my attention that the rules and regulations for Big Island Nature Park, posted on the City of Orono web site at <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ci.orono.mn.us/rules_&_regulations.htm">http://www.ci.orono.mn.us/rules_&_regulations.htm</a>, are not in compliance with state law.<br><br>The page currently contains the following language:<br><br><blockquote><b><u>Firearms, etc.</u></b> Firearms, explosives, slingshots, bows and arrows, paintball guns and other weapons are prohibited in the Park at all times. Discharge of firecrackers or fireworks or detonation of explosive devices of any kind in the Park is prohibited.<br></blockquote><br>As I am sure you are aware, the Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act of 2003, codified in Minnesota Statute 624.714, allows persons issued a permit by their country sheriff to carry a firearm on or about their persons in a public place -- including a public park. The permit is, as Subdivision 2(c) makes clear, "...a state permit...effective throughout the state," including, of course, Orono.<br><br>The statute also specifically states, in Subdivision 23, that "No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry."<br><br>To keep Orono and the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District in compliance with state law and to avoid any unfortunate and potentially dangerous confusion on the part of law enforcement personnel or other citizens, I respectfully recommend that the city take immediate steps to update the park rules and web site to conform to state law.<br><br>One way this could be done is demonstrated below:<br><br><blockquote><b><s>Firearms, etc.</s></b><u><b></b><b>Weapons</b></u><b>:</b> Firearms, explosives, slingshots, bows and arrows, paintball guns and other weapons are prohibited in the Park at all times<u>, with the exception of firearms carried by persons possessing a Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol</u>. Discharge of <u>firearms,</u> firecrackers or fireworks or detonation of explosive devices of any kind in the Park is prohibited.<br></blockquote><br>If you have any questions, I am at your service. I look forward to your timely reply.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>Andrew Rothman<br>Executive Director<br>Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructor
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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Hunter07
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:53 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am Posts: 725 Location: New Ulm area
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Go get 'em Andrew!
Call 'em out and take them to task as needed.
_________________ The only downfall to a 1911A1, is actually a plus: You can have it your way, and can put an unreal amount of money into em'.
Squeeze trigger, BANG, repeat. Kind of boring, but I never cared for drama.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:04 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Sure, but we always start with honey, not vinegar. It worked well in Rochester.
(But I did prominently CC the MADFI attorney, just to make sure the email has some traction. )
Hunter07 wrote: Go get 'em Andrew! Call 'em out and take them to task as needed.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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J. R.
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:26 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:17 pm Posts: 351 Location: west 'burbs
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Nicely done Andrew. Can't wait to see the response. Who are Wells and Mattick? MCWD and City of Orono Attorneys?
_________________ For English, press 1
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:46 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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JimC
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:01 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:56 pm Posts: 1109
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Says you can't fish from a city dock??? That's weird.
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tman065
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:48 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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JimC wrote: Says you can't fish from a city dock??? That's weird.
Fishing lines and boat motors....
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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ecrist
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:29 pm |
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In the time out chair |
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:38 pm Posts: 36
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JimC wrote: Says you can't fish from a city dock??? That's weird.
That's actually a common rule, and, iirc, a regulation in DNR codes. A certain county I'm aware of enforces this quite a bit. As was said, it's mostly due to fishing lines, boat motors, and the safe entry/departure from boats for folks launching a craft. Hard to board your boat when 15 other people are trying to fish from the dock...
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:41 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Well, they haven't responded. Next email went to the city council and mayor, copied to the city administrator and attorney.
Quote: To: jwhite@ci.orono.mn.us, cbremer@ci.orono.mn.us, lmcmillan@ci.orono.mn.us, jmurphy@goldengate.net, dfranchot@ci.orono.mn.usSubject: Second notice: Park rules correction Cc: "Marc S. Berris, Esq.", "William Wells, Orono City Administrator" <bwells@ci.orono.mn.us>, "Orono City Attorney Soren Mattick, Esq." <smattick@ck-law.com> Mr. Mayor and members of the city council, When I sent the message below to Mr. Wells and Mr. Mattick a week and a half ago, I expected at least the courtesy of a reply. I am sorry to say I received none. Once again: a portion of your park rules stand in conflict with state law and are therefore nullified an unenforceable. Should any city official take any steps to enforce such a rule, they would open the city to legal action, up to and including a civil action under 42 USC 1983. I expect that you will move will all haste to correct them, and suggest that next Monday's council meeting would be an ideal time to do so. Sincerely, Andrew Rothman Executive Director Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructors Quote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Park rules correction Date: Sun, April 12, 2009 To: "William Wells, Orono City Administrator" <bwells@ci.orono.mn.us>, "Orono City Attorney Soren Mattick, Esq." <smattick@ck-law.com> Cc: "Marc S. Berris, Esq." Mr. Wells and Mr. Mattick, It has recently come to my attention that the rules and regulations for Big Island Nature Park, posted on the City of Orono web site at http://www.ci.orono.mn.us/rules_&_regulations.htm, are not in compliance with state law. The page currently contains the following language: Quote: Firearms, etc. Firearms, explosives, slingshots, bows and arrows, paintball guns and other weapons are prohibited in the Park at all times. Discharge of firecrackers or fireworks or detonation of explosive devices of any kind in the Park is prohibited. As I am sure you are aware, the Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act of 2003, codified in Minnesota Statute 624.714, allows persons issued a permit by their country sheriff to carry a firearm on or about their persons in a public place -- including a public park. The permit is, as Subdivision 2(c) makes clear, "...a state permit...effective throughout the state," including, of course, Orono. The statute also specifically states, in Subdivision 23, that "No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry." To keep Orono and the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District in compliance with state law and to avoid any unfortunate and potentially dangerous confusion on the part of law enforcement personnel or other citizens, I respectfully recommend that the city take immediate steps to update the park rules and web site to conform to state law. One way this could be done is demonstrated below: Quote: <s>Firearms, etc.</s>Weapons: Firearms, explosives, slingshots, bows and arrows, paintball guns and other weapons are prohibited in the Park at all times<u>, with the exception of firearms carried by persons possessing a Minnesota Permit to Carry a Pistol</u>. Discharge of <u>firearms, </u>firecrackers or fireworks or detonation of explosive devices of any kind in the Park is prohibited.
If you have any questions, I am at your service. I look forward to your timely reply. Sincerely, Andrew Rothman Executive Director Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructors
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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JimC
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:09 am |
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:56 pm Posts: 1109
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They're probably fumbling around trying to look up and read what the law actually says. You sent them into a Tizzy, lol
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Well, the city attorney's position is that the dog ate his homework:
Orono City Attorney Soren Mattick wrote: Mr. Rothman, I received your two emails for the first time this morning. My email system will not accept emails that have attachments or internal internet links from people that have not sent me emails in the past. I have had an opportunity to review your initial request and will speak with the city regarding your concerns. This item will not be on the agenda for the April 27th meeting. I will forward any decision the City makes regarding your request to you via email. Thank you for you legal opinion regarding the park rules and the City’s liability. Soren
I swear, this doesn't have to be a big deal. Rochester's city attorney and city council fixed an almost identical problem after a single email, and thanked us for bringing the issue to their attention. No muss. no fuss, no bother.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
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