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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:28 pm 
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609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY.
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


Yeah I understand... :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:45 am 
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8pDGh910_EQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8pDGh910_EQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Under the "entertainment" rationale, this guy should simply be able to breeze by on three murders simply because he kept screaming "FUNNY! FUNNY!" As he shot them, right?

Because that was funny, right? Right?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:02 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
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609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY.
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


Yeah I understand... :P



Nuke plants are one of the very few places where photography IS restricted, in the US...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:00 am 
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Binky .357 wrote:
Under the "entertainment" rationale, this guy should simply be able to breeze by on three murders simply because he kept screaming "FUNNY! FUNNY!" As he shot them, right?


Smile, you're on Candid Camera... Murdering someone and wearing a mask or robe are completely different things. I don't believe I used an entertainment rationale at anytime.

The videos I posted show how people react when they see someone in a mask, or Arab dress. It doesn't matter if you find it amusing, entertaining or funny. I'm sure what they did broke a law somewhere in the world and they deserve to die. /sarcasm

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:13 am 
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And another "funny" guy...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yJxD7rfANZw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yJxD7rfANZw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:14 am 
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FWIW, I watched it again and I do still laugh at the people's reactions. Even though I know I shouldn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:21 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
Binky .357 wrote:
Under the "entertainment" rationale, this guy should simply be able to breeze by on three murders simply because he kept screaming "FUNNY! FUNNY!" As he shot them, right?


Smile, you're on Candid Camera... Murdering someone and wearing a mask or robe are completely different things. I don't believe I used an entertainment rationale at anytime.

The videos I posted show how people react when they see someone in a mask, or Arab dress. It doesn't matter if you find it amusing, entertaining or funny. I'm sure what they did broke a law somewhere in the world and they deserve to die. /sarcasm


The point is, you're passing off his crime of assault (walking into various businesses while dressed like a robber to illicit a response of fear, if not abject terror) as a joke simply because he did it for laughs.

I'll ask again, if it's so funny and a non-crime, why doesn't he pull his little stunt at a bank or (if they had them over in England) a gun store? Because he'd probably end up shot.

Having worked retail under the circumstances I've already described in an earlier post, I can tell you with complete seriousness that if someone came into my store dressed like that I would be making it my personal goal to see that this idiot was brought up on charges for every law he broke in the books if I had to send copies of the relevant laws to the destrict attorney, applicable passages highlighted.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Binky .357 wrote:
The point is, you're passing off his crime of assault (walking into various businesses while dressed like a robber to illicit a response of fear, if not abject terror) as a joke simply because he did it for laughs....if someone came into my store dressed like that I would be making it my personal goal to see that this idiot was brought up on charges for every law he broke in the books if I had to send copies of the relevant laws to the destrict attorney, applicable passages highlighted.


This was filmed in Australia, and each "joke" is approved by lawyers before it takes place.

As I've already stated: "A persons apparel does not constitute an act with "intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm". It may cause fear, but that alone is not enough for an assault charge."

If someone wants to wear a nylon mask, or anything else they can as far as I'm concerned. If you want to freak out about it and compare it to the physical assault of someone, thats your bent prerogative.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:37 pm 
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The question of whether the "amusing" act is legal or illegal may be of little consequence when considered in balance with the stupidity of the action. Why?.........BECAUSE IT COULD EASILY GET YOU KILLED :!:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Scott Hughes wrote:
The question of whether the "amusing" act is legal or illegal may be of little consequence when considered in balance with the stupidity of the action. Why?.........BECAUSE IT COULD EASILY GET YOU KILLED :!:


You don't have to worry about getting killed in Australia, they've banned guns! :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:08 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
As I've already stated: "A persons apparel does not constitute an act with "intent to cause fear in another of immediate bodily harm". It may cause fear, but that alone is not enough for an assault charge."

If someone wants to wear a nylon mask, or anything else they can as far as I'm concerned. If you want to freak out about it and compare it to the physical assault of someone, thats your bent prerogative.


But there's the rub... assault, under the eyes of the law, is not a physical act, per se. It is a physical act inasmuch as it requires a certain degree of action on the part of the person committing the assault, but it does not require phyiscal contact with the person being assaulted.

Assault could merely be brandishing a knife in the general direction of a person-or it could be the act of shaking ones fist at a victim; that creates the fear of great bodily harm. To actually make physical contact turns the crime into assault and battery.

I've had this explained to me on multiple occasions by multiple criminal defense attorneys, one of whom began his career as an assistant district attorney.

But this argument is going nowhere. I will still contend that the "humor" is on the same vein as planting homemade explosives in a neighbors mailbox, or slashing a young mothers tires, or hurling a brick through an elderly womans window; you'll continue to contend that committing a criminal act in the name of a few laughs is okay, as long as it has a national audience.

Kinda like the kids who went around shooting people with a paint ball gun a few years back. All they really did, some might argue, is scare the hell out of a few people. They did it for laughs, too. They also video taped their stupidity. Who knows, maybe they were going to start their own TV show with the footage. Would that defense have stopped the criminal charges?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Again, thats a physical action. Shooting someone with a paintball gun, hitting them with a bottle, blowing up a mail box, Slashing the tires to a car, All those are actual malicious attacks. The purpose of those actions may have been fun rather then profit, intimidation, or great bodily harm, but they are all malicious acts. Wearing particular clothing, no matter how outside the norm or your personal standards, Isn't a attack.

We live in Minnesota. Minnesota has cold winters. I know several people who wear ski masks on a regular basis during the winter, because they are actors, and it helps keep there skin from getting damaged. Are they assaulting retail employees? the short answer is NO. It doesn't matter if its for fun or utility, it amounts to the same thing as far as the law is concerned, again:
Quote:
609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY.
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


If you really fail to see the difference between someone threatening you by shaking thier fist, and someone wearing clothing different then your personal standards would dictate, maybe you should re take your permit to carry class as I worry that you wouldn't be able to discern the difference between an attacker, and someone who just wants the time of day and is very persistent about it.

I know. Great first post right? Now no one will ever like me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:45 pm 
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MCXL wrote:
Again, thats a physical action. Shooting someone with a paintball gun, hitting them with a bottle, blowing up a mail box, Slashing the tires to a car, All those are actual malicious attacks. The purpose of those actions may have been fun rather then profit, intimidation, or great bodily harm, but they are all malicious acts. Wearing particular clothing, no matter how outside the norm or your personal standards, Isn't a attack.

We live in Minnesota. Minnesota has cold winters. I know several people who wear ski masks on a regular basis during the winter, because they are actors, and it helps keep there skin from getting damaged. Are they assaulting retail employees? the short answer is NO. It doesn't matter if its for fun or utility, it amounts to the same thing as far as the law is concerned, again:
Quote:
609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY.
A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.


If you really fail to see the difference between someone threatening you by shaking thier fist, and someone wearing clothing different then your personal standards would dictate, maybe you should re take your permit to carry class as I worry that you wouldn't be able to discern the difference between an attacker, and someone who just wants the time of day and is very persistent about it.

I know. Great first post right? Now no one will ever like me.


It wasn't bvecause he was cold, it wasn't for religious reasons, it wasn't for medical.

The one reason this guy wore a mask around was to terrify people working in retail locations by making them think they were being robbed.

Is there ANY dounbt in ANYONES mind that that was his intention? If so, then I'd have better luck talking to the brick wall in the corner.

For those that would see common sense, they would see that his intention was clearly to illict a response of fear; it was clearly to make the people think they were about to be robbed.

Think about that for a second; his intention was to illict fear. Not a prank on a family member where you can all share a laugh later and all is forgiven, not a prank on a co-worker where everyone can chuckle about it at the bar after work, parties that may or may not appreciate the "humor" involved...

If any of you has survived a robbery, ask yourselves, how funny is this, really. If you know anyone who has survived a robbery, ask them if they can appreciate this "humor".

And read the statute on assault again. Actually READ it. Then try and convince me that his INTENT TO CREATE FEAR is not an assault.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:49 pm 
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No his intent was to show how people jump to conclusions based on your appearance, and he did it for his TV Show. I'm sure that in addition to those few responses of alarm he got, he got responses that were as completely normal as if the man was wearing a mustache, and derby hat.

If the intended purpose of television isn't to inform and entertain, I don't know what is. (Weather it actually fulfills those criteria is a personal matter, but it certainly tries to do those things)

My mother, was robbed at gunpoint at a corner store, and she found this video hilarious. In addition, it seems like most robbers don't wear masks when robbing retail stores. At my former employer we had a string of robberies by a man who casually broke in and looked our security camera DEAD ON, every single time. IIRC he robbed the store 4 times for a grand total of just over 10,000$ worth of merch, and was never caught.

The gentleman in the video never threatened them in any way, he simply showed interest in the various establishments goods, and his willingness to pay. What he is wearing is up to him, and I am just fine with that. If someone happens to draw a false conclusion that is their fault, not his, and the entertainment from their assumptions ends up being our (or my as the case may be) entertainment. Remember, Assume makes an Ass out of you and me, and thats why its entertaining.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:53 am 
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In MN, most likely charge would be:

609.72 DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

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Subdivision 1.Crime.Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place, including on a school bus, knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:

(1) engages in brawling or fighting; or

(2) disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or

(3) engages in offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous, or noisy conduct or in offensive, obscene, or abusive language tending reasonably to arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others.



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