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 Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules 
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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:06 am 
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joelr wrote:
He's probably talking about the relevant part of FOPA.

I don't think so, I think he is misinformed about Minnesota law. That is why I ask to see a statute that does not exist to my knowledge, but I am open to learning something new. Same as when I am told there is a federal law prohibiting commercial truck drivers from having a firearm in their possession, no one has shown me that statute either.


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:52 pm 
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As I had stated before, I err on the side of caution. The MN law may have not stated that, but it does comply with the MN statute. I learned that a radar detector in Virginia (banned in VA) within reach of the driver, but not in use was still a violation after getting a ticket for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:01 pm 
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nitzer wrote:
As I had stated before, I err on the side of caution. The MN law may have not stated that, but it does comply with the MN statute. I learned that a radar detector in Virginia (banned in VA) within reach of the driver, but not in use was still a violation after getting a ticket for it.


OK, I guess I misunderstood what you wrote earlier.
nitzer wrote:
Then the range bag went in the trunk or in the back seat of my pick-up since it would be out of reach of the driver (while driving of course). Many people can reach pretty far into their backseat, but as far as I know that meets the requirement for vehicles with no trunk.

You said that it meets the requirement and I was wonder what Minnesota requirement you were referring to.


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:26 pm 
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Wow...this forum rocks! I was expecting maybe a reply or two in such a short order of time but I got a bunch. Thanks so much.

I'm still a little confused, however, regarding the whole transporting issue. Based on all the arguments made in this thread, it sounds like I can have everything in my shooters bag - including any ammo or loaded mags (as long as I don't have any loaded mags in the gun itself). And as Teresa told us, it's best to keep it in the trunk but she did mention that it can also be in the far "back corner" of the vehicle (out of arm's reach). She cautioned, however, that a lot of cops will argue that as well so she just told us to play it safe and transport it in the trunk.

And thanks to the one guy who gave me target distance suggestions...you said "15"...I'm assuming that's 15 yards and not feet.

Thanks again for all your help.

Travis


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:34 pm 
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It's not the law that it needs to be out of reach or in the trunk, but some cops believe that is the law. I think they transpose the alcohol transport laws to firearms.

It's not a bad idea to keep it out of view in case you stop somewhere else on the way to the range.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:54 pm 
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cobb wrote:
You said that it meets the requirement and I was wonder what Minnesota requirement you were referring to.


Ok, I look at it this way. If there was a "requirement" to remove your shoes before entering my home, removing both your shoes and socks would meet that "requirement". If the MN statute says that the "the container must simple be closed and fastened, and not a purse", then having the container both closed and fastened and out of reach of the driver also "meets the requirement". That's all I meant to say. Since some Police officers seem to want to impose additional requirements on transportation of a firearm as others have stated (ie: out of the reach of the driver), I am avoiding getting into an argument (or discussion) about the subject as he's standing on the edge of traffic. If he gives me a ticket for it, that's what the courts are there for. Also, if I am being stopped it means I did something else wrong since they probably wouldn't know I was not transporting my firearm in the proper manner (don't have a gun rack in the back window of my VW). Now, if he has no other beef with me besides a small traffic infraction there is a possibility of getting a warning and let go. On the other hand, if he pulls me over for that small traffic infraction and he thinks (right or wrong) that I have just violated two laws chances are I will not get out of there with a warning.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:21 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Under MN, law, of course, the container must simple be "closed and fastened," and not a purse.


624.714 says "contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, or securely tied package"

97B.045 is more explicit: "in a gun case expressly made to contain a firearm, and the case fully encloses the firearm by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened, and without any portion of the firearm exposed"

In this case, the court says that since the 624.714 doesn't define the terms, the district court was quite proper in looking to 97B.045 for a definition.

But this case says that a holster is a proper case within the meaning of 624.714.

In my mind, the typical holster would not meet the standards of 97B.045, so the two decisions are contradictory. The only conclusion I can draw is to be careful about how fine a point you draw, when you're trying to draw logical conclusions about the law.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Re Targets,

Try law enforcements targets, in blaine...... or just go to wallyworld and buy a few hundred paper plates of various different sizes. THey work fine.



Range etiquette. Some ranges want you to carry your whole range bag to the firing range, some want individual cases for each gun moving back and forth. some trust you to carry a gun from the benches to the range, if you keep the muzzles down and safe.. Ask first, watch a little bit, and see whats approved behavior.

More than that, welcome to the world of shooting sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:02 pm 
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For a time Bills disallowed Paper plates because they looked tacky or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:22 pm 
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plblark wrote:
For a time Bills disallowed Paper plates because they looked tacky or something.

or cut into their profit margin. .....


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Quote:
And thanks to the one guy who gave me target distance suggestions...you said "15"...I'm assuming that's 15 yards and not feet.


Nope, feet.

For personal protection that is the distance you need to practice.

I use 17 feet, as that is one of the common distance for "interactions".


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:00 pm 
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rthib wrote:
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And thanks to the one guy who gave me target distance suggestions...you said "15"...I'm assuming that's 15 yards and not feet.


Nope, feet.

For personal protection that is the distance you need to practice.

I use 17 feet, as that is one of the common distance for "interactions".


Yuppers.

If you start at 15 yards (45 feet) without having a lot of handgun experience, you're going to be frustrated in short order.

You'll have beginner's luck, then you're going to start flinching...and it's going to seem like a much bigger deal than it really is when you're at 45 feet instead of 15 feet. And as for the flinching...it's really not a big deal, by the way. Trust me. 8)

To give you an idea, the qualification I prefer for carry classes (and apologies to Andrew, from which it's a close rip off) is at 14, 21, and 40 feet. Emphasis is on the 14 and 21 foot distances.

If you haven't taken a carry class yet, you'll find if and when you do that 21 feet has a very special meaning in terms of self defense...at least if your instructor is doing a good job, that is. :wink:

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:26 pm 
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tvanslooten wrote:
And thanks to the one guy who gave me target distance suggestions...you said "15"...I'm assuming that's 15 yards and not feet.Travis


Most pistol ranges are only 50 feet deep so 15 yards would be almost to the end. As a newby good luck hitting the paper even with the biggest target. 15 feet is correct. If your buying targets I suggest TJtarget.com as one source of reasonable targets of all sizes etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:46 am 
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Paper plates are a bad idea at an indoor range because your POA is too close to the target hanger.

Shoot long enough and you will hit the target hanger and you will be embarrassed when you have to explain to the range staff that you broke their stuff because you are a cheap bastard.

Hopefully that is as bad as it gets and you don't get a ricochet that hurts someone.

I don't use targets printed on 8½ x 11" paper at indoor ranges for the same reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Total Newbie Needs Help Understanding Shooting Range Rules
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:50 am 
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I've found ordering targets online in boxes of 75-100 are much more affordable than buying stuff at the range -- even amazon has targets available at decent prices...
b

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