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 .45 ball ammo question 

What's inside your .45?
1. I always carry .45 ball ammo.  11%  11%  [ 3 ]
2. I sometimes carry .45 ball ammo.  29%  29%  [ 8 ]
3. I use ball .45 ammo only for practice.  61%  61%  [ 17 ]
Total votes : 28

 .45 ball ammo question 
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 Post subject: .45 ball ammo question
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:21 am 
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I've heard that .45 FMJ 230 gr is a respectable self defense round.

If/when you carry a .45 (any design) do you load it with ball ammo?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:09 am 
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Location: N 44°56.621` W 093°11.256 (St Paul)
I carry and practice with ball ammo. It has served well for near 100 years, and has served me well personally in real world situations. In a 1911 for everyday street carry, I want to know that should I need it for defense that regardless of a thick coat, wall, mail box, or behind a car door that it will get there with minimal problems. Just personal preference...... :lol:

I also consider Corbon a good alternative and have a G30 and 1911 loaded with it for in the house use...............

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:59 am 
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230gr BALL is like throwing the AMerican Flag at someone.

I would rather shoot 230 BALL that works than JHP's that may or may not work well in your 45....

Most of the schools that I have been to recommend 230 Gr BALL for sheer reliability. Nothing like 2 holes.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:33 am 
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My preference is Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket; intended to provide the reliable feeding of ball ammo with the effectiveness of a hollow point. As it's spendy, I only shot about 150 rounds of it, but never had a jam.

However if I didn't have that around, I was never bothered by carrying regular FMJ, in fact the hollowpoint thing, to me, was as much if not more about overpenetration than about stopping power. In fact more than once I've left the 200 grain lead semiwadcutters from IDPA matches in the gun. Probably one of the least effective .45 ACP defensive rounds available, but that's still a helluva a thing to get shot by!


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 Post subject: If I carried a 45...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:19 am 
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I would NOT walk around with plain old military ball in it. My personal favorite ammo manufacturer is Corbon, and they have a round called the Powerball that is "ball" ammo, but it's a plastic ball that's swaged into the tip of a soft lead bullet with a big hollowpoint in the back to fit the ball, and it's function is similar to the Federal "expanding" ball rounds, but a lot simpler design. In addition, the good folks atCorbon load all of their stuff up to SAAMI max pressures, so the ammo is smokin hot.

2nd choice id the Glaser Blue ammo, also made by Corbon, and also also ball, but will fragment once it enters the perp.


Last edited by Seismic Sam on Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:32 am 
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Quote:
230gr BALL is like throwing the American Flag at someone.


Hmmm ... nice idea.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:01 am 
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When out in the back-woods and wilderness areas, I carry a mix of hollowpoint and ball in an every other one fashion. Generally in the forest overpenetration is not an issue and for something aggressive that has four feet (or paws), I want to be able to get through the fur or hide.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:43 am 
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KonaSeven wrote:
When out in the back-woods and wilderness areas, I carry a mix of hollowpoint and ball in an every other one fashion. Generally in the forest overpenetration is not an issue and for something aggressive that has four feet (or paws), I want to be able to get through the fur or hide.


You have as good a possibility of making 2 holes with 230gr JHP's as with 230gr Ball. Something to consider...

I have done a lot of testing - yeah the 230gr ball goes through a lot of soft material - AKA Flesh and bone..... BUT so do the 45gr JHP's

Something to consider - heck you have to consider that the bullet is going to go right through - good possibility.

Remember that JHP's dont often open at slow speed reliably - they plug with clothihng - and other gunk... You will likely be shooting ball anyhow.

Even the 45 is not the magic bullet - it will make 2 holes just like anything else in most cases.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:24 pm 
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Pinnacle wrote:
Even the 45 is not the magic bullet - it will make 2 holes just like anything else in most cases.


Yup, that's why if it's a hunting trip, my long gun backup is a magnum round in a fairly long barrel revolver. But for hiking, camping, ATV'ing or snowmobiling, the 45 carries easier. I have only really been close to needing the pistol once. It was just my wife and I on snowmobiles when we came across a moose wandering down the trail. It was in no hurry to get off the easy walking of the trail to head back into the deep stuff. We stopped a good 50 yards away, it kept slowly walking towards us until we stood up to take a picture then it turned and ran. The sound of the motors doesn't seem to bother the wildlife, but as soon as it recognizes you as a human animal, that's another matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:57 pm 
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I recall this ammo test on The Box O' Truth, showing the effectiveness of hollowpoints when shooting through clothing.
Image

Where a Black Talon JHP (left) shot through "clothing" did not expand at all, vs. a Hydrashok (right) shot into the same setup with out the "clothing".

Full Article found here

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:54 pm 
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WARNING... Check your COR BON bullets FREQUENTLY. I checked the carry load today before shooting it up and reloading and was AMAZED. 2 of the rounds were severely set back. We're not talking just a bit either. something close to 25% of the bullet was set back. Ryan at Bill's North said the mags and followers may do that to the truncated cone due to the way they angle them. So, even though I was careful not to chamber the same round, EVER ROUND was getting ground into the mag each time I chambered. Scary indeed. I left one on the counter for their example and kept one.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:07 pm 
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Yes ball works but not as well as modern HP's. I would only carry it if it was the only ammo that ran 100% in my only available carry gun.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:53 am 
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KonaSeven wrote:
I recall this ammo test on The Box O' Truth, showing the effectiveness of hollowpoints when shooting through clothing.
Image

Where a Black Talon JHP (left) shot through "clothing" did not expand at all, vs. a Hydrashok (right) shot into the same setup with out the "clothing".

Full Article found here


Almost. That photo shows the .45ACP bullet without the cloth in front of the jug of water. With the layers of clothing, the .45 didn't expand, either. It seems that pretty much nothing they tried did.

Rifle bullets aren't much concerned with layers of clothing, though! I think you could also use a 12 ga. slug and have excellent results, hollow-point or not.

jb

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:55 am 
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Here's the .45ACP Black Talon, fired through the clothing:

Image

jb

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:52 am 
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About theonly thing that really seems to help the JHP is speed.

45's are like the a tug boat - they just keep steaming along no matter what and seem to have the horsepower (Kinetic energy) to get the job done - remember that when we are talking about self defense there are two things that are true

1. The only way that a pistol bullet is going to cause certain incapacitation is bleed out and that takes time. Exit wounds bleed more profusely than an entry wound. When we count on bleed out (hypovolemic shock) we need to cause as much damage as humanly possible in the shortest amount of time - large caliber + 2 holes (or more) = the probable best case scenario. Small bullet of moderate weight and proper construction will have a similar effect - Winchester RA9TA.....

2. A perfect shot to the Cranial Ocular cavity is the only other sure bet - but I defy you to get that one right under stress.

Pistols are marginal self defense tools there are a lot of variables and unfortunately until I have access to a ray gun - my sidearm is going to have to do the job. Pistols are like anything else - the only thing that really matters is that YOU do your part. Shot placement - projection of sufficient power to get it done properly - and speed of delivering energy to the target.

SPEED / POWER / ACCURACY = the Magic Three.

I consider the reliability of a pistol to be paramount - not the ammunition that I carry - the most Uber Cool and scary looking JHP does not mean squat if it is not 100% reliable in the pistol.

Consider this - the 45 is the EASIEST of all common self defense rounds to defeat with very low level body armor - the 9mm XXXXX is the HARDEST to defeat even with the best body armor.

I dont seem to find the perfect answer here.


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